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Stan Lee16 December 2022

#643: Todd McFarlane, Iconic Comic Book Artist — Lessons from Stan Lee, How to Make Art that Outlives You, How to Compete with Corporate Giants and Win (While Having Fun), Dealmaking Strategies, War Stories from Wall Street and Lawyer Land, Taking Responsibility for Your Life, and Why Creators Need to Smash Limits

9Frameworks
12Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take1:12:30

Why More Wall Street Money Was Useless to McFarlane

Wall Street buyers repeatedly increased their offers for McFarlane's company, but every deal required surrendering control. Because he already had unused money in the bank, a larger offer did not solve the thing he valued. His deliberately impossible price was enough capital to repurchase the company, remove the buyers, and still retain a profit.

  • The buyers treated more money as the answer to every objection
  • McFarlane valued creative and operating control more than unused capital
  • He says everyone has a price, but his required terms were never offered
  • Remaining private also preserves his ability to make long-horizon bets

I already got got money. I don't need any of your money.

Todd McFarlane · 1:13:30

It's when you have something and you don't use it.

Todd McFarlane · 1:14:00
#wall street#control#ownership#capital

Story· 7

Story14:30

Why Stan Lee Still Had Stage Energy in His Nineties

McFarlane recalls Lee privately marveling at how fortunate they were to meet enthusiastic audiences. He believes conventions restored Lee as much as Lee energized fans, especially after the death of his wife, Joanie. Lee remained formidable onstage into his mid-nineties before age, hearing loss, and grief finally caught up with him.

  • Lee's public enthusiasm matched his private personality
  • Audience interaction was emotionally restorative for him
  • His wife encouraged him to keep attending shows
  • McFarlane regrets that Lee's final stage appearance did not receive a more deliberate farewell

Todd, isn't this wonderful? Isn't this great? I'm having a great time this weekend.

Stan Lee · 20:00

he was getting as much out of the audience as they were getting out of him.

Todd McFarlane · 20:30
#stan lee#energy#grief#appreciation
Story46:30

Toys“R”Us Bought Spawn Before a Prototype Existed

At his first Toy Fair, McFarlane had only a five-foot space, a foamcore drawing, and no prototype. A young assistant recognized Spawn's comic-book success and brought the Toys“R”Us buyer to him. McFarlane accepted the buyer's price, date, and storewide offer before knowing whether he could manufacture the order, then used that commitment to open doors at competing chains.

  • The display contained a drawing rather than a finished toy
  • A junior assistant's awareness of Spawn created the decisive introduction
  • The Toys“R”Us commitment supplied credibility with Walmart, Kmart, and Target
  • McFarlane describes the break as dumb luck rather than a repeatable launch plan

Hey, boss, this is the guy I was talking to you about.

Toys“R”Us buyer's assistant · 49:30

If you can do that, I'll put you in all my stores, I'll go storewide.

Toys“R”Us buyer · 50:30
#toy fair#retail#toys r us#opportunity
Story1:08:00

The $3 Million Baseball That Opened Four Sports Leagues

Unable to get meaningful access to major sports leagues, McFarlane spent $3 million on Mark McGwire's record-setting 70th home-run ball. The purchase generated national attention and changed how leagues and unions received his calls. He subsequently secured licenses in baseball, football, basketball, and hockey and says the resulting toys returned the outlay multiple times over.

  • The purchase cost every cent McFarlane had and more
  • He valued the headlines and institutional credibility, not only the collectible
  • The publicity turned ignored calls into meetings
  • Sports-toy profits later exceeded the purchase price multiple times

I knew that spending and getting that ball would get me headlines.

Todd McFarlane · 1:10:00

In short order I ended up having the license for baseball, football, basketball, and hockey.

Todd McFarlane · 1:10:30
#sports licensing#publicity#baseball#risk
Story1:17:00

McFarlane Forced the NHL to Choose Between Court and Cash

Before owning league rights, McFarlane licensed NHL players through their union and put them in generic uniforms. When league lawyers threatened to sue, he reframed their options: risk a ruling that weakened their claimed ownership or accept his payment for the official logos. The league ultimately took the licensing money.

  • Current-player figures require separate player and league rights
  • McFarlane first obtained the more accessible players' union license
  • Generic uniforms created leverage and a legal confrontation
  • He argued that litigation offered the league downside without improving its claimed position

You can either go to court and say that somehow you own reddish colors and bluish colors, if you want to make that argument be…

Todd McFarlane · 1:20:30

Eventually they took the half a million bucks.

Todd McFarlane · 1:21:00
#nhl#licensing#negotiation#lawyers
Story1:28:30

HBO's Spawn Was Canceled by Overhead, Not Its Audience

Spawn became the last surviving show in HBO's animation division and continued on the same direct production budget. As the other shows were canceled, HBO reassigned their overhead to Spawn. The altered cost-per-viewer calculation pushed the award-winning show below an internal threshold even though its own operating budget had not increased.

  • Spawn survived after five other animated shows failed
  • The production continued to win Emmys on the original budget
  • HBO loaded the failed division's overhead onto the remaining show
  • A changed accounting denominator, not changed production, ended the series

every time a show got canceled, one of the animations got canceled, they just put all the costs on the existing show.

Todd McFarlane · 1:29:00

You haven't given me one red cent more than you did the first year. I'm working on the exact same budget.

Todd McFarlane · 1:29:30
#hbo#spawn#animation#accounting
Story1:49:00

Eddie Vedder's Mystery Briefcase Held Two Baseball Gloves

Eddie Vedder invited McFarlane to animate Pearl Jam's “Do the Evolution” after watching HBO's Spawn. During three editing days, Vedder repeatedly carried an unopened briefcase until McFarlane finally asked about it. Inside were two baseball gloves and a ball, including a left-handed glove chosen after Vedder researched McFarlane's playing background.

  • Pearl Jam wanted an animated video so the band did not need to appear
  • Vedder edited a Spawn montage himself to demonstrate the desired tone
  • He brought the gloves for three days without volunteering their purpose
  • Their game of catch nearly ended in heat exhaustion because Vedder wore black and smoked in extreme heat

It was a briefcase, just like you're a spy or something. And then he clicked it open and you're waiting for the CIA folders, except…

Todd McFarlane · 1:53:00

You want to play catch during lunch break?

Eddie Vedder · 1:53:30
#eddie vedder#pearl jam#music video#baseball
Story2:11:00

Spawn's Living Costume Began as a Continuity Mistake

Readers noticed Spawn's pouches and spikes moving or changing number between panels. Rather than merely correct the inconsistency, McFarlane declared that the costume was alive and could morph. A production mistake consequently became durable character mythology.

  • Readers caught visual inconsistencies McFarlane had missed
  • The costume's ability to morph explained changing details
  • The explanation became part of Spawn's canon
  • McFarlane presents the origin candidly as adaptation after an error

That's because it's alive. The costume morphs, and it can do anything at any time. It's a living being.

Todd McFarlane · 2:12:00

You make lemonade out of your lemons, and you just keep moving on and hope they don't catch up to you.

Todd McFarlane · 2:12:30
#spawn#character design#mistakes#mythology

Takeaway· 4

Takeaway07:30

Stan Lee Made Every Fan Feel Important in 20 Seconds

McFarlane says Stan Lee could make each person in a long autograph line feel important, special, and unique before resetting for the next fan. That example taught him that creators owe their careers to the public and should treat every sincere fan question as important.

  • Stan gave each fan focused energy even during large signings
  • McFarlane credits fans with making creative careers possible
  • A question matters because it matters to the person asking it

And he would make people feel important, special, and unique in that 20 seconds. And then he would reset for the next person.

Todd McFarlane · 08:00

There is no dumb question. You know why? Because whoever is asking it, it's important to them.

Todd McFarlane · 09:30
#stan lee#fans#gratitude
Takeaway1:31:00

Why McFarlane Became Bilingual in Art and Business

McFarlane sees art as his native language and business as a language he deliberately learned. He wanted enough command of executive conversations to protect creative decisions, judge advisers, and own his failures. The tradeoff is acute: every business meeting takes time away from the creative work that generates the company's underlying value.

  • Creative frustration led McFarlane to become his own businessman
  • Business fluency helps him challenge rejection with evidence
  • He prefers failing on his own decisions to blind dependence on others
  • Management time competes directly with the art that powers his businesses

I consider myself, Tim, to be bilingual. I have learned the language of business. I am first and foremost a fluent speaker in art, that…

Todd McFarlane · 1:32:00

If I'm going to fail, I want to fail on my own merits.

Todd McFarlane · 1:33:00
#artists#business fluency#leadership#creativity
Takeaway1:56:30

For McFarlane, Success Buys Another Day of Making Art

McFarlane says he does not pursue success primarily for additional fame, money, or praise. A strong result earns the institutional trust required to receive the next creative opportunity. His desired end state is to keep making art until his final breath, with commercial success serving that continuity.

  • Failed work makes the next major commission harder to obtain
  • Success creates permission and momentum for another creative job
  • Fame and fortune are byproducts rather than the central purpose
  • The long-term goal is an uninterrupted creative life

Here's why success matters, because you can't keep doing art, which is what I am, an artist.

Todd McFarlane · 1:57:00

I need it so I can do art again tomorrow and the next day and the next day.

Todd McFarlane · 1:57:30
#success#art#creative career#momentum
Takeaway2:32:00

The Deathbed Test: Best Person or Richest Person?

When speaking to business students, McFarlane asks them to imagine dying in three weeks and choosing one person to support the loved one left behind. He then asks whether they selected the richest person they know or the best person. The exercise challenges the assumption that money is the primary measure of a successful life.

  • The scenario forces students to identify whom they trust at the highest-stakes moment
  • Emotional reliability outranks wealth in the imagined choice
  • McFarlane argues a person can make money without making money the driver
  • He prefers a good community member to a wealthy executive estranged from family

Did you pick the richest person you know, or did you pick the best person?

Todd McFarlane · 2:35:30

Be the second person, and you can still make money and be that second person. Don't worry about it, but don't make the money the…

Todd McFarlane · 2:36:00
#success#character#money#humanity