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11 January 2023

#649: Rick Rubin, Legendary Producer — Timeless Methods for Unlocking Creativity, Secrets Hidden in Plain Sight, The Future with AI, Helpful Distractions, Working with Strong Personalities, Breaking Out of “The Sameness,” and More

7Frameworks
11Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Leadership6 steps

Blind Idea Testing

Strip authorship off every option so the best idea wins instead of the loudest ego

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Communication5 steps

Constraint-Induced Authenticity

Occupy the performer with a second task so the performance stops and the person shows up

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Productivity6 steps

Overwrite Then Curate

Draft three times what you ship, finish every first draft, then judge them together

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Innovation6 steps

Pattern Inversion Experiment

Name the pattern running through your work, then deliberately build its opposite

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Self-Mastery6 steps

Session-to-Principle Harvest

After each session, extract the principle that outlives the problem you just solved

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Peak Performance6 steps

The Fresh Ears Test

Judge revision 56 against revision 1, not against the hours you spent getting there

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Strategy7 steps

Wave or Widen: The Trajectory Decision

Decide whether to keep riding a fading movement or widen the envelope of who you are

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster1:02:00

Not everyone can be DaVinci, and Johnny Ramone proves it doesn't matter

On whether creative access is innate or cultivated, Rubin concedes you can get there different ways but that not everyone can be DaVinci. Being the best you can be does not mean being world-class. What matters is getting great at the thing you are great at that few others do in your way. Bob Dylan is arguably the most loved singer-songwriter in the world without a virtuoso voice, and Johnny Ramone cannot play guitar like Eric Clapton but plays guitar like Johnny Ramone.

  • There are multiple routes in, but talent ceilings are real
  • Best you can be is not the same as best in the world, and that is fine
  • The target is the thing you do well that few others do your way
  • Dylan and Johnny Ramone are loved for particularity, not virtuosity
  • The specific thing has to align with what you want to do to be sustainable

“Being the best we can be doesn't necessarily mean that when we do our best, we are at the best in the world or even…”

Rick Rubin · 1:02:30

“Johnny Ramone can't play guitar like Eric Clapton, but he can play guitar like Johnny Ramone. And I'm good with that.”

Rick Rubin · 1:03:30
#talent#differentiation#mastery#self-knowledge

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take53:00

Rubin on AI: the computer does the making, but it can't do the noticing

Asked about ChatGPT, Midjourney and generative music, Rubin says AI as an end does not interest him but as a means it could be useful. What matters about the things we make is not the making, and the computer cannot notice. He would run a music-generating program in the background all day, sample any moment that caught his ear, and build from that seed with human taste, the same way hip-hop producers crate-dig through hundreds of albums hunting a single moment.

  • AI as an end is uninteresting; as a means it can be useful
  • The machine does the making but not the noticing
  • Method: generate continuously, listen all day, sample the moments that catch you
  • Human curation is what makes the result art
  • No computer-generated image has yet made him feel anything or want to go deeper

“What's interesting about the things we make, again, isn't the making. The computer's doing the making. It's not doing the noticing.”

Rick Rubin · 53:30

“I think what's interesting, the human curation aspect of art is it's what makes it art.”

Rick Rubin · 54:30
#ai#creativity#curation#sampling

Explainer· 3

Explainer38:00

Look for what you notice but no one else sees

Rubin unpacks a line from page 41 of his book. Hard-won solutions, he argues, are rarely exotic once found; they were right there the whole time. The skill is entering a state that lets you see what everyone else walks past, illustrated by a tree he had passed daily for six weeks before finally noticing strange butterfly-shaped protrusions on it.

  • Breakthrough solutions usually turn out to have been obvious in hindsight
  • The opportunity for beauty and inspiration is present daily, everywhere
  • He had walked past the same tree for six weeks without seeing the detail
  • Noticing generated a question and a conversation, not just an observation
  • What you notice becomes what you would want to draw or make

“We miss what's right in front of us. We have great opportunities to participate in incredible beauty and inspiration every day, everywhere we go.”

Rick Rubin · 38:30

“I've walked by that same tree every day for 6 weeks and I never noticed that before and here I noticed it and now I…”

Rick Rubin · 39:30
#attention#noticing#creativity#awareness
Explainer43:00

Craftsperson vs artist: making what was ordered vs the unimagined thing

Rubin draws a line between two modes of work, insisting neither is better. The craftsperson builds the specified thing to spec and makes them all match. The artist makes the thing you did not know you wanted or knew was possible, which is a different process rooted in connection to the world rather than in learning to make things. He counts old movies, great literature, museums, nature and hard exercise as that connection work, and reframes so-called distraction as its engine.

  • Craft is making the specified thing; art is making the unimagined thing
  • Neither mode is superior, they are different ways of looking at it
  • Art has more to do with connection to the world than with technique
  • Museums, literature, nature and old films all count as connection
  • Hard exercise and ice baths work because nothing else can occupy you

“The artist is making the thing that you didn't know you want, the thing that you didn't know that you couldn't live without, the thing…”

Rick Rubin · 43:30

“It has more to do with our connection to the world than anything else.”

Rick Rubin · 44:00
#craft#artistry#distraction#inputs
Explainer1:04:00

Rubin's inspirational intake: exhaust the list, never treat it as homework

Ferriss asks how Rubin manages input across thousands of artists. Rubin describes himself as a mass consumer of information and art, always reading, listening and taking things in, but never as homework. He wants to exhaust the list so he is not missing anything, and dives as deep as he can, though the sheer volume of modern content means some categories, such as new films, have fallen away entirely. He also uses repeated recommendations as a signal that the universe wants him to see something.

  • Constant intake, but driven by enjoyment rather than obligation
  • The aim is to exhaust the list so nothing worth hearing is missed
  • Volume of modern content means some categories drop out, like new movies
  • Multiple independent recommendations read as a signal to follow through
  • Two exceptions on his list: a David Bowie documentary and the film Tar

“I'm not doing it like homework. I'm doing it because that's the reason I am who I am is because that's how I've always done…”

Rick Rubin · 1:04:30

“If multiple people are telling me, you got to see this, chances are something in the universe wants this to happen.”

Rick Rubin · 1:06:00
#input#consumption#curiosity#recommendations

Story· 2

Story33:30

Why Rick Rubin refused to write the rock-star memoir everyone wanted

Publishers and friends, Ferriss included, told Rubin the book he wanted to write sounded like a lot of work and not the book anyone wanted from him, and suggested a biography instead. He refused on two grounds. Examples drawn from his own life would tether the book to his life and expire in twenty or thirty years, and a story about Jay-Z makes the reader admire Jay-Z rather than picture themselves solving the problem.

  • The consensus advice was to write the easy biography instead
  • Rubin wanted a book that could live outside time, like the Tao Te Ching
  • Celebrity examples make readers spectate rather than participate
  • Removing names is the same principle as his blind AB testing
  • He wanted the book to be actually helpful, not sensational

“I want the book to be a timeless book. And if the examples were about me and my life, they would be attached to me…”

Rick Rubin · 34:00

“If I do that same exercise, and it's a story about Jay-Z, you're not picturing yourself solving that problem.”

Rick Rubin · 35:00
#writing#books#creative-decisions#timelessness
Story1:12:30

The Creative Act had no outline: a blank slate and years of shaping

Rubin describes the book's pacing as willingness to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes until he did not know what to do anymore. There was no plan of 78 areas of thought written to a structure. It began as general conversation over years about the philosophy of the creative process, produced roughly a thousand pages of unordered talk, and then took years more to turn that into the finished form. He went in with a blank slate and only an intention about what it should accomplish and how it should feel.

  • No outline or section plan existed at the start
  • Roughly a thousand pages of unordered conversation came first
  • Turning the transcripts into the book's form took years
  • The only inputs were an intention and a target emotional feel
  • Earlier versions held the same information but failed to make you want to make something

“I thought of it as I'm willing to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes for it to be as good as…”

Rick Rubin · 1:12:30

“I went in with a blank slate. I had an intention of what I wanted it to accomplish. But that's all.”

Rick Rubin · 1:13:30
#book-writing#emergence#process#editing

Q&A· 1

Q&A57:00

How Rubin would train his son to become a music producer

Asked how he would coach his son through Padawan training as a producer, Rubin does not reach for technique. He would start with seeing and hearing as much art and music as possible and interrogating why you like what you like and not what you do not, including the qualities that are beyond words. The goal is to get in tune with feelings language cannot capture and to recognise the moment your breath is taken away, which young children experience more often than jaded adults.

  • Training starts with volume of exposure, not with equipment or technique
  • The core question is why we like what we like and what qualities cause it
  • Some of the decisive qualities are not describable in language
  • Children access the breath-taken feeling more readily because the world is new
  • Rubin cites a sunset during beach tai chi as the calibration standard

“Trying to understand, why do we like the things we like and not like the things we don't. What are the qualities in there?”

Rick Rubin · 57:30

“To get in tune with these feelings that language doesn't do justice to. And to feel that feeling when your breath gets taken away.”

Rick Rubin · 57:30
#taste#training#mentorship#aesthetics

Takeaway· 3

Takeaway50:30

Get early feedback from your mailing list, never from Twitter

Ferriss asks how to solicit feedback on new fiction when Twitter returns ten destructive replies for every constructive one. Rubin's rule is to seek feedback only from people who genuinely care about you and your work, not from a general reader. Concretely: send the work to your mailing list rather than posting it publicly, because subscribers opted in and are invested. He adds that the sample must be large enough that the response is not just uniform praise.

  • Feedback should come from people invested in you, not a general audience
  • Mailing list subscribers signed up for you; they are not there to hate you
  • Public platforms select for destructive rather than constructive responses
  • Scale matters even inside a welcoming audience, or you only hear I love this
  • Ferriss separately refuses to let crowd input drive creative decisions

“I would say to try to find a way to get feedback from people who genuinely care about you and your work, not a general…”

Rick Rubin · 50:30

“If someone signed up to your mailing list, they're not signing up to hate you.”

Rick Rubin · 51:00
#feedback#audience#creative-process#email-list
Takeaway55:30

Rubin's test for whether something is good: does it surprise you and hold you

Ferriss asks Rubin to describe the felt sense he uses as a guiding rod. Rubin names surprise as the key element. Work that only repeats the thing that made him like it initially loses him, while work that keeps catching his ear and makes him lean forward to understand what is happening holds his curiosity. His decision rule is brutally simple: if he wants to turn it off, it is not for him.

  • Surprise is the primary element that holds attention
  • Work that only re-delivers its first hook loses interest fast
  • The signal is leaning forward to understand why you are feeling something
  • Wanting to turn it off is a definitive no
  • Wanting to listen forever is a definitive yes

“One of the elements is surprise. It holds my attention and it surprises me.”

Rick Rubin · 55:30

“Anytime it makes me want to turn it off, I know that's not for me. If I want to turn it off, it's not for…”

Rick Rubin · 56:30
#taste#judgment#surprise#curation
Takeaway1:14:00

How to read The Creative Act: open it at random, a few pages at a time

Ferriss reports the book is a slow read, not because it is complicated but because it concerns internal experiences and gives you a lot to consider. They agree the approach is one short chapter, a few pages, before bed, since reading a hundred pages at once means being waterboarded by potential energy in too many directions. Asked which sections he hopes readers do not miss, Rubin says none, and hopes people open it randomly and read wherever their eyes land.

  • Read a few pages at a time rather than in long sittings
  • The density is emotional and internal, not intellectual
  • Reading a hundred pages at once makes it impossible to digest
  • Rubin has no priority sections and hopes for random opening
  • If a passage helps, that is the invitation to repeat the practice

“I hope anyone who's interested opens it randomly, reads something wherever their eyes go.”

Rick Rubin · 1:15:00

“It's talking about internal experiences and it's just a lot to consider.”

Tim Ferriss · 1:14:00
#reading#books#practice